tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1707960843925805135.post8759302552842997853..comments2023-11-02T07:21:32.077-05:00Comments on We might be windmills: On how to kill a mouse.Unknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1707960843925805135.post-82494116363590191472008-12-05T10:49:00.000-06:002008-12-05T10:49:00.000-06:00JKC, those are some great insights. I agree whole-...JKC, those are some great insights. I agree whole-heartedly.Amandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04386560623177476553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1707960843925805135.post-60163681498179186212008-12-05T10:10:00.000-06:002008-12-05T10:10:00.000-06:00Amanda,"Require at your hands" appears to have bee...Amanda,<BR/><BR/>"Require at your hands" appears to have been a pretty common construction in Jacobian English. It looks like Beckett, Wesley, and the Mayflower pilgrims all used it. Beckett said that he felt that God would require King Henry's blood at his hands if he didn't warn him to depart from sinfulness. Wesley used it to describe how God would deal with those who encouraged others to sin. The Mayflower pilgrims used to to say simply that God would require them to be wise as they set up their society.<BR/><BR/>It seems to me to express the idea of accountability. We own our actions---they are ours; and we have to recognize that.<BR/><BR/>I don't think it means, literally, that God will ask us to restore the life (blood) that we have taken. We can't do that, and he knows, it. And I don't think it means that it is absolutely wrong to take animal life. <BR/><BR/>The idea of requiring animal life at our hands also has to be balanced against the notion that even though God doesn't forget even one sparrow, human beings "are of more value than many sparrows." Luke 12:7. And that we have been given the power to use animal life for our own uses.<BR/><BR/>I guess what I'm saying is that there are plenty of reasons that justify taking animal life, but the fact is that it has to be justified. It can't just be for no reason. The result, for me, is that even though killing an animal is not always a bad thing, at some level, it is still a sad thing.<BR/><BR/>I think requiring the blood of every beast means, similar to what you're saying, that when we take animal life, we have a good reason for it. I think you're right, that it is a caution to be aware of our motivations, combined of course, with the notion that it is not just by our actions, but by our desires as well that we are judged.<BR/><BR/>I think you're absolutely right that when we take animal life, we ought to show some reverence in the act. I've read that some native American tribes had a ritual where, just after killing an animal, the hunter would pray to the animal's spirit, thanking it for the use of its body to preserve himself and his family from cold and hunger.<BR/><BR/>While our religion isn't really consistent with praying to non-deities, I think we can take that ritual as an example of what it means to show some reverence in the act of killing. I suppose that brings a new perspective to a mealtime prayer. Maybe a way to avoid "vain repetitions."<BR/><BR/>It is interesting that the first instance we have in the scriptures of someone taking animal life is God himself doing it. After Adam and Eve fall, the Lord makes coats of skins to clothe them. I think it's fair to infer that he killed animal to get the skin. That was John Wesley's opinion. It also jibes with the notion that God taught Adam and Eve about sacrifice.<BR/><BR/>At some level, the idea of one of God's creatures giving up its life and to save another of his creatures (from hunger, cold, etc.); and the idea of that one using his own body to feed the others, is deeply symbolic of the atonement. Maybe that's why we are supposed to be so reverent about it.JKChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18318850320568944070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1707960843925805135.post-16766108697065484362008-12-04T18:44:00.000-06:002008-12-04T18:44:00.000-06:00FIVE? That gives me the heebie-jeebies. I had to l...FIVE? That gives me the heebie-jeebies. <BR/><BR/>I had to look up the definition of "require," since the idea of requiring something at one's hands seems a strange way of phrasing it.<BR/><BR/>I like that "require" and "query" are related. When I mourn the end or loss of something, at some point or another I end up asking myself or God or the cosmic void why it happened. Maybe the Lord is that way too? Not that he wonders in the same way we do, but maybe he just asks that we have a good explanation for ending the life of or losing something he created? But that still seems a bit off to me.<BR/><BR/>It reminds me of something I read in this great book, "Conversations with Elie Wiesel." There's a part where Mr. Wiesel is asked to explain Genesis 3:9 ("And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?") Did the all-knowing Lord really not know where Adam was? Mr. Wiesel's response was something to the effect of this: The Lord did know where Adam was--he asked the question so that Adam would realize where HE was. (Keeping in mind that the Lords asks this question right after Adam and Eve are separated from the presence of the Lord because they ate the fruit.)<BR/><BR/>Maybe the idea of requiring the blood of every beast at our hands is more akin to the Lord asking us why we killed his creations so that we can understand the full import of our actions, sort of a "Do you realize what you just did?" And in that way maybe he's just asking that we be mindful of our motivations and not take the act of killing creatures lightly, that we show some reverence in the act somehow, if at all possible?<BR/><BR/>That may be softening it too much. Oh well, just a thought.Amandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04386560623177476553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1707960843925805135.post-89236669557754943672008-12-04T16:13:00.000-06:002008-12-04T16:13:00.000-06:00Definitely agree with you there. Plus it's just e...Definitely agree with you there. Plus it's just easier to have to deal with a mouse corpse than using your own hands to crush the little guy.The Sharkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09310081508496496402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1707960843925805135.post-66786956693935194482008-12-04T15:17:00.000-06:002008-12-04T15:17:00.000-06:00Yes, Shark, I agree that it isn't wrong to get rid...Yes, Shark, I agree that it isn't wrong to get rid of rodents. I'm feeling no guilt about it. <BR/><BR/>But I do feel bad about the sticky trap. That just seems like needless suffering. Sure, it's more convenient, but I think the spring traps are more humane.JKChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18318850320568944070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1707960843925805135.post-77521018820657545162008-12-04T14:54:00.000-06:002008-12-04T14:54:00.000-06:00Here's the dealio: I'm pretty sure the Lord suppor...Here's the dealio: I'm pretty sure the Lord supports a man protecting his family. By ridding your house of a rodent problem, you are ensuring your child's health. Yes, you can release it alive outside, but it's cold outside and the mouse will probably find a way back in, or at least into someone ELSE's house. There's really no practical, kind way to go about it.<BR/><BR/>This reminds me of my last apartment in BYU where we also had a mouse problem. We caught the first three by hand (well, with bowls) on separate occasions, drove out to a large, open field and released them because we couldn't bear to kill them ourselves. We then used sticky traps and caught two more, I think. The first one we caught was in a similar state as you describe -- I'm pretty sure he was panicking so badly that he was in shock. He had made a bowl movement all over the trap, too. My roommate took care of him. I took care of the next one but still couldn't bring myself to actually do him in, so he ended up suffering a slow, painful death in the dumpster. Perhaps I will be held accountable for not having the guts to do the better thing.<BR/><BR/>Finally management sent in pest control and they brought in some poison.The Sharkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09310081508496496402noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1707960843925805135.post-4611583075132339202008-12-04T13:44:00.000-06:002008-12-04T13:44:00.000-06:00It sounds like you need to borrow a cat and let it...It sounds like you need to borrow a cat and let it run around your place for a while.Warrenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17059735648946659240noreply@blogger.com